PhantomDeejay
Just to clear things up:
As I said, I don't advise ANY Dj to use a program like GrandMA, Titan or MagicQ.
Their "show generation" mechanism is their FX engine and yes, it's.. powerfull and complicated.
My point was that for me it was easier to get around such a complicated software (learn how to set it up and how to use it to do what I need) than SoundSwitch.
And when I tried to use SoundSwitch, I started simple, with just two moving heads.
But there was no profile available for them (despite being from a good known brand).. An then I could not get any interesting movements out of them. And then I could not get any good color program out of them (because they had a color disc, not an RGB LED emitter). And then..
You get my point.. I invested 3 or 4 days trying hard to get "something" out of 2 moving heads, and still their "Master/Slave Auto/Music" function worked better!
It could be me! But still that was my experience with SS, and I tried 3 different times to make it work..
So, I just stated my experience!
As I said, I don't advise ANY Dj to use a program like GrandMA, Titan or MagicQ.
Their "show generation" mechanism is their FX engine and yes, it's.. powerfull and complicated.
My point was that for me it was easier to get around such a complicated software (learn how to set it up and how to use it to do what I need) than SoundSwitch.
And when I tried to use SoundSwitch, I started simple, with just two moving heads.
But there was no profile available for them (despite being from a good known brand).. An then I could not get any interesting movements out of them. And then I could not get any good color program out of them (because they had a color disc, not an RGB LED emitter). And then..
You get my point.. I invested 3 or 4 days trying hard to get "something" out of 2 moving heads, and still their "Master/Slave Auto/Music" function worked better!
It could be me! But still that was my experience with SS, and I tried 3 different times to make it work..
So, I just stated my experience!
Posted Sat 25 Nov 23 @ 12:10 am
groovindj
Yes I think it's safe to say that SoundSwitch aims for the plug and play brigade - people who don't want to dive deep into DMX.
At least now they do have a way to make & add profiles yourself.
At least now they do have a way to make & add profiles yourself.
Posted Sat 25 Nov 23 @ 9:52 am
Centre Stage Discos
Thank you for the comments once again. That's a lot of useful info.
I see it's going to be a gamble, to some degree, as to whether this software is fully compatible with the units we have.
Our disco setup is considered to be larger than the average mobile setup, but it's still small-fry when compared to the kind of lighting you see in bars and clubs where something more technically proficient than SoundSwitch is needed. For our uses, SoundSwitch sounds just about right.
As I say, we usually take out 2 x Chauvet Swarm FX5s, 2 x KintaHPs and 4 Equinox Fusion Scan 3s. They all have DMX, but the only uncertainty we have at the moment is just how compatible they are with the SoundSwitch software. Since they are all 'DMX' I assume they will work well. PLEASE tell me if I am mistaken here as this is a whole new learning curve for us. I have a concern that we'll buy this and find out it only 'half' works.
On the audio side, we have a couple of American Audio media controllers, a VMS4.1 and a VMS5 and we use VirtualDJ software. (I am going to sound really dense now) How does the dongle connect from the controller or laptop? I haven't found this in any video tutorial so far. Furthermore, if I understand this correctly, it is not essential to have the Control One. Or is it?
As things stand, our lighting is virtually always all on full auto so we have frequent strobing and zero sound-to-light, which is far from ideal.
We will also be required to dim the lighting at some smaller venues.
I see it's going to be a gamble, to some degree, as to whether this software is fully compatible with the units we have.
Our disco setup is considered to be larger than the average mobile setup, but it's still small-fry when compared to the kind of lighting you see in bars and clubs where something more technically proficient than SoundSwitch is needed. For our uses, SoundSwitch sounds just about right.
As I say, we usually take out 2 x Chauvet Swarm FX5s, 2 x KintaHPs and 4 Equinox Fusion Scan 3s. They all have DMX, but the only uncertainty we have at the moment is just how compatible they are with the SoundSwitch software. Since they are all 'DMX' I assume they will work well. PLEASE tell me if I am mistaken here as this is a whole new learning curve for us. I have a concern that we'll buy this and find out it only 'half' works.
On the audio side, we have a couple of American Audio media controllers, a VMS4.1 and a VMS5 and we use VirtualDJ software. (I am going to sound really dense now) How does the dongle connect from the controller or laptop? I haven't found this in any video tutorial so far. Furthermore, if I understand this correctly, it is not essential to have the Control One. Or is it?
As things stand, our lighting is virtually always all on full auto so we have frequent strobing and zero sound-to-light, which is far from ideal.
We will also be required to dim the lighting at some smaller venues.
Posted Sat 25 Nov 23 @ 11:22 am
kradcliffe
The dongle plugs in to the USB on your PC.
I'm guessing like most other DMX software that the lighting units will need to have a profile built in to SS for them to work. You can probably check to see in advance if they are supported or not.
I'm guessing like most other DMX software that the lighting units will need to have a profile built in to SS for them to work. You can probably check to see in advance if they are supported or not.
Posted Sat 25 Nov 23 @ 11:51 am
markstibbards
I just got a Wolfmix a few weeks ago, and for the first time ever after trying other methods and getting nowhere I have DMX lighting..
Posted Sat 25 Nov 23 @ 12:06 pm
serieB
What about an idiot-proof (like me) console with pre-programmed or easy to program fixtures and scenes and forget the software path?
https://www.thomann.de/gb/botex_rainbow_rider_dmx.htm
I don't have any idea at all of DMX lightning, so yesterday I ordered this item to check it could suit my needs for my 8 led fixtures and a fog machine set-up. I'll let you know when arrives at home.
https://www.thomann.de/gb/botex_rainbow_rider_dmx.htm
I don't have any idea at all of DMX lightning, so yesterday I ordered this item to check it could suit my needs for my 8 led fixtures and a fog machine set-up. I'll let you know when arrives at home.
Posted Sat 25 Nov 23 @ 12:09 pm
Centre Stage Discos
Thanks KRADCLIFFE.
This has answered one of my questions.
Regarding the support and compatibility for each unit, this profile aspect concerns me, but I assume that the DMX addresses will take care of that to a large degree, plus a bit of programming as necessary. DMX is a standard protocol which would surely go a substantial way to allowing advanced control of each unit, perfectly or not quite. Unless I have that completely wrong of course.
This has answered one of my questions.
Regarding the support and compatibility for each unit, this profile aspect concerns me, but I assume that the DMX addresses will take care of that to a large degree, plus a bit of programming as necessary. DMX is a standard protocol which would surely go a substantial way to allowing advanced control of each unit, perfectly or not quite. Unless I have that completely wrong of course.
Posted Sat 25 Nov 23 @ 12:13 pm
Centre Stage Discos
MARKSTIBBARDS: Was SoundSwitch in your list of 'getting nowhere' products?
I realise this is all going to be quite a learning curve, but it's one I have studied a little, and I think I understand how DMX works, even though I have not yet put it into practice, so I am looking forward to the challenge. I don't expect to get it all working overnight either. Maybe some of the pre-programmed scenes, etc. will be of use to begin with. Time will tell on that.
I realise this is all going to be quite a learning curve, but it's one I have studied a little, and I think I understand how DMX works, even though I have not yet put it into practice, so I am looking forward to the challenge. I don't expect to get it all working overnight either. Maybe some of the pre-programmed scenes, etc. will be of use to begin with. Time will tell on that.
Posted Sat 25 Nov 23 @ 12:18 pm
Centre Stage Discos
SERIEB:
Thanks for the link. This is the route I thought I might have taken myself, but I wonder if more programming work would be necessary with these. Looking forward to hearing how you get on.
Thanks for the link. This is the route I thought I might have taken myself, but I wonder if more programming work would be necessary with these. Looking forward to hearing how you get on.
Posted Sat 25 Nov 23 @ 12:20 pm
markstibbards
Yeah I had a Soundswitch dongle for a couple of days and took it back to the shop. I couldn't get my ADJ lights to do anything, and the Equinox lights I had at the time were not on the list of fixtures.
Posted Sat 25 Nov 23 @ 12:23 pm
Centre Stage Discos
Re. the Equinoxes: This worries me. Thanks for the feedback.
As I say, DMX is a standard protocol, irrespective of what application you are using to control it, so I find it surprising that you couldn't get it to work with your Equinoxes. If there is something else happening with the Equinoxes which state that you just CANNOT control them with the SoundSwitch units then I need to know. Surely there must be SOME degree of control.
As I say, DMX is a standard protocol, irrespective of what application you are using to control it, so I find it surprising that you couldn't get it to work with your Equinoxes. If there is something else happening with the Equinoxes which state that you just CANNOT control them with the SoundSwitch units then I need to know. Surely there must be SOME degree of control.
Posted Sat 25 Nov 23 @ 12:35 pm
markstibbards
It was before the Covid I had the soundswitch so it might be better now. I don't know.if there is there a list of supported fixtures you can check on the website?
Posted Sat 25 Nov 23 @ 12:48 pm
Centre Stage Discos
That's a shame, but it does look like they are constantly extending support for different lighting units.
I think I have reached a conclusion after reading everything in this thread - and I thank you all very much for your views and comments. It's all been very interesting and there is some valuable information above. I think the picture is a lot clearer in my mind as a result.
After some thought, our conclusion is that we need to buy the software and the Control One and give it a go.
"Some lighting is not supported". I still don't understand this as DMX is DMX, but I am not expecting miracles as DMX is not exactly the most straight-forward thing in the world. I am sure I will have difficulties understanding it to begin with.
I also expect there will be quirks and maybe certain aspects of individual lighting units will not work because of the way they are designed, but I expect there will be a good degree of useful control, which we badly need. So we will go ahead and invest in this and I'll make a post on my findings in the days ahead.
Thank you everybody once again. All really helpful.
John
I think I have reached a conclusion after reading everything in this thread - and I thank you all very much for your views and comments. It's all been very interesting and there is some valuable information above. I think the picture is a lot clearer in my mind as a result.
After some thought, our conclusion is that we need to buy the software and the Control One and give it a go.
"Some lighting is not supported". I still don't understand this as DMX is DMX, but I am not expecting miracles as DMX is not exactly the most straight-forward thing in the world. I am sure I will have difficulties understanding it to begin with.
I also expect there will be quirks and maybe certain aspects of individual lighting units will not work because of the way they are designed, but I expect there will be a good degree of useful control, which we badly need. So we will go ahead and invest in this and I'll make a post on my findings in the days ahead.
Thank you everybody once again. All really helpful.
John
Posted Sat 25 Nov 23 @ 1:18 pm
groovindj
You don't need the Control One. Just buy the USB dongle, or even another supported dongle (listed on their site).
As for the profiles or fixture files required by the software, this is basically a file which tells the software how each light is configured - which channels do what etc. Originally SoundSwitch had a built in list, and if your light wasn't on there, you had to ask them nicely to add it. Now though, there is an editor which you use to make your own. There's obviously a learning curve for that.
A standalone hardware controller though doesn't need profiles. It just outputs DMX info based on which sliders you move and which buttons you press. Programming a "show" though will require some learning.
Yes, DMX is DMX - but each light will be set up differently, in terms of functions and which channels control which colour etc. Even lights from the same company.
As for the profiles or fixture files required by the software, this is basically a file which tells the software how each light is configured - which channels do what etc. Originally SoundSwitch had a built in list, and if your light wasn't on there, you had to ask them nicely to add it. Now though, there is an editor which you use to make your own. There's obviously a learning curve for that.
A standalone hardware controller though doesn't need profiles. It just outputs DMX info based on which sliders you move and which buttons you press. Programming a "show" though will require some learning.
Yes, DMX is DMX - but each light will be set up differently, in terms of functions and which channels control which colour etc. Even lights from the same company.
Posted Sat 25 Nov 23 @ 3:19 pm
PhantomDeejay
To put it simply:
The DMX protocol is easy. Each DMX channel can have values from 0 to 255.
It's what the fixture does when it receives those values on each channel that matters for ANY DMX software (and most DMX consoles).
DMX consoles for instance have a joystick to control PAN/TILT of your fixture (if it supports movement)
The console needs to know that in "Fixture 1" channels 13,14 & 15,16 control PAN and TILT respectively. Otherwise the joystick will not work.
It's the same for DMX software. The software needs to know which channels correspond to which "attribute" of the fixture. If the software doesn't know on which channel your fixture changes colors, then it cannot apply "easily" any color, or any color effects to it.
That's why "fixture profiles" and "fixture files" matter. And that's why even hardware DMX consoles offer a way to "edit/create" a basic fixture profile.
If you want to start "simple" then I would still recommend to use Freestyler DMX.
It's FREE software and works with a lot of DMX modules. It has it's limitations, but to reach those limitations you'll have to have either a very large lighting rig, or require a fully professional light show as the ones you see on large stadiums/arenas.
Yes, it requires you to spend sometime to learn a few things and also program a few things in it, but the time you spend pays off quickly. Also, it's the first step to learn how to setup and run light shows "the proper way". So if you ever hit it's limitations or you decide to go big on lighting, you have the basic knowledge to escalate up. You won't have to learn everything from scratch again.
Just my honest opinion.
The DMX protocol is easy. Each DMX channel can have values from 0 to 255.
It's what the fixture does when it receives those values on each channel that matters for ANY DMX software (and most DMX consoles).
DMX consoles for instance have a joystick to control PAN/TILT of your fixture (if it supports movement)
The console needs to know that in "Fixture 1" channels 13,14 & 15,16 control PAN and TILT respectively. Otherwise the joystick will not work.
It's the same for DMX software. The software needs to know which channels correspond to which "attribute" of the fixture. If the software doesn't know on which channel your fixture changes colors, then it cannot apply "easily" any color, or any color effects to it.
That's why "fixture profiles" and "fixture files" matter. And that's why even hardware DMX consoles offer a way to "edit/create" a basic fixture profile.
If you want to start "simple" then I would still recommend to use Freestyler DMX.
It's FREE software and works with a lot of DMX modules. It has it's limitations, but to reach those limitations you'll have to have either a very large lighting rig, or require a fully professional light show as the ones you see on large stadiums/arenas.
Yes, it requires you to spend sometime to learn a few things and also program a few things in it, but the time you spend pays off quickly. Also, it's the first step to learn how to setup and run light shows "the proper way". So if you ever hit it's limitations or you decide to go big on lighting, you have the basic knowledge to escalate up. You won't have to learn everything from scratch again.
Just my honest opinion.
Posted Sat 25 Nov 23 @ 4:29 pm
Centre Stage Discos
Understood, GroovinDJ. We decided to go for the Control One as well. It's probably on the overkill side for our setup but it should gives us the flexibility we need.
Regarding the standalone controller, I wonder if programming those units would require even more work. The SoundSwitch software comes with pre-set 'scenes', if that's the correct word to use here and I would guess these can be copied and modified to suit your own needs. I also understand that some of these scenes can be exchanged online among users.
That's useful infromation, Phantom, regarding the fixture profiles - thanks for this. All opinions matter. There's no doubt that a bit of research will be necessary and probably right from the start, but I am looking forward to getting my hands dirty with this. Freestyler looks good too. I doubt we will ever make our light show any larger. We have been thinking about slimming it down if anything as we typically take out more than a dozen effects as it is. A lot of people say that the light show is not the most important part of a disco, but we definitely get bookings based on our light show. It's not the largest and it's certainly not the smallest, but I just think it looks bad when the effects just loop round on their own limited set of scenes, strobing for much of the time and without any sound-to-light control. It's also next to impossible to slow these effects down for a first dance at a wedding. If you have DMX lighting then it makes sense to me to tweak it up and get it to do what it's really capable of.
Regarding the standalone controller, I wonder if programming those units would require even more work. The SoundSwitch software comes with pre-set 'scenes', if that's the correct word to use here and I would guess these can be copied and modified to suit your own needs. I also understand that some of these scenes can be exchanged online among users.
That's useful infromation, Phantom, regarding the fixture profiles - thanks for this. All opinions matter. There's no doubt that a bit of research will be necessary and probably right from the start, but I am looking forward to getting my hands dirty with this. Freestyler looks good too. I doubt we will ever make our light show any larger. We have been thinking about slimming it down if anything as we typically take out more than a dozen effects as it is. A lot of people say that the light show is not the most important part of a disco, but we definitely get bookings based on our light show. It's not the largest and it's certainly not the smallest, but I just think it looks bad when the effects just loop round on their own limited set of scenes, strobing for much of the time and without any sound-to-light control. It's also next to impossible to slow these effects down for a first dance at a wedding. If you have DMX lighting then it makes sense to me to tweak it up and get it to do what it's really capable of.
Posted Sat 25 Nov 23 @ 11:33 pm
schmidi_0
My journey with DMX for your consideration: I do mobile gigs, mostly weddings. About 10 years ago I bought a cheap USB DMX dongle (Nicolaudie Sushi-DS $49) that came with their own DMX software that can also run stand-alone without a computer. It was pretty basic and the included software was old as hell (probably Windows 98 era!). The software is weak on purpose to push you into upgrading to their newer/better software.
Their strategy worked, and I purchased a year license for one of their better software and permanently upgraded my stand-alone channels. The improved software allowed me to make some decent "scenes" and "chases" (Think: colorful dance, slow dance, strobes, chasers, UV all, blackout/whiteout etc). And you know what...It has worked flawlessly in stand-alone for hundreds of wedding gigs!
Zoom ahead to this last summer and I thought I'd give Soundswitch a try to spice up my lighting. It was puzzling at first, but I watched some Youtube tutorials and dove in. It clicked within a week or two, and the autoscripting was really easy to generate scenes and chases. Ultimately though, I started to realize the autoscripting results were either too damn busy or too damn simple! (at least for a wedding context IMO) That, and I found the SS software was not 100% stable while I was DJing. THAT is a make or break IMO when doing weddings. YMMV
So, I returned the SS dongle and programmed a new show with my 10 year old standalone $50 dongle lol. I will say though, that Wolfmix 1 (ADJ WMX1) looks dope though!
Their strategy worked, and I purchased a year license for one of their better software and permanently upgraded my stand-alone channels. The improved software allowed me to make some decent "scenes" and "chases" (Think: colorful dance, slow dance, strobes, chasers, UV all, blackout/whiteout etc). And you know what...It has worked flawlessly in stand-alone for hundreds of wedding gigs!
Zoom ahead to this last summer and I thought I'd give Soundswitch a try to spice up my lighting. It was puzzling at first, but I watched some Youtube tutorials and dove in. It clicked within a week or two, and the autoscripting was really easy to generate scenes and chases. Ultimately though, I started to realize the autoscripting results were either too damn busy or too damn simple! (at least for a wedding context IMO) That, and I found the SS software was not 100% stable while I was DJing. THAT is a make or break IMO when doing weddings. YMMV
So, I returned the SS dongle and programmed a new show with my 10 year old standalone $50 dongle lol. I will say though, that Wolfmix 1 (ADJ WMX1) looks dope though!
Posted Sun 26 Nov 23 @ 3:41 am
Centre Stage Discos
That's interesting, SCHMIDI_0. Sounds like you have got something which is really working well for you.
I don't know what laptop/computer system you are running but I wondered if there might have been some incompatibility which was restricting your operation of SoundSwitch. I will assume not as it sounds like you know exactly what you are doing there. It's just that I have used a multitude of different laptops and found their performance with different software has varied so much due to the internal laptop hardware, particularly where video cards and drivers just don't like certain installations. Another example, if you are really interested, is where a loss of internet connection can sometimes TOTALLY lock up one laptop, a new i5 machine running Windows 11, whereas the backup laptop, a slightly older i5 running Windows 10 doesn't blink when the connection is lost, which of course it shouldn't, but you get quirks like this with most machines, Macs too.
Just out of curiosity, do you run an older machine for the Nicolaudie dongle? I still use older machines for some older software that I still like to use at home. Hey, I'm a bit of a geek. ;O)
I know I will enjoy programming the SS software, as long as it DOES WHAT I TELL IT, lol. and of course there will be ups and downs, but it does look like a hugely versatile system. The more videos I have watched, the more positives I can see this having. As I said, I will report back with my findings.
The Control One and dongle has been ordered and should arrive today.
I don't know what laptop/computer system you are running but I wondered if there might have been some incompatibility which was restricting your operation of SoundSwitch. I will assume not as it sounds like you know exactly what you are doing there. It's just that I have used a multitude of different laptops and found their performance with different software has varied so much due to the internal laptop hardware, particularly where video cards and drivers just don't like certain installations. Another example, if you are really interested, is where a loss of internet connection can sometimes TOTALLY lock up one laptop, a new i5 machine running Windows 11, whereas the backup laptop, a slightly older i5 running Windows 10 doesn't blink when the connection is lost, which of course it shouldn't, but you get quirks like this with most machines, Macs too.
Just out of curiosity, do you run an older machine for the Nicolaudie dongle? I still use older machines for some older software that I still like to use at home. Hey, I'm a bit of a geek. ;O)
I know I will enjoy programming the SS software, as long as it DOES WHAT I TELL IT, lol. and of course there will be ups and downs, but it does look like a hugely versatile system. The more videos I have watched, the more positives I can see this having. As I said, I will report back with my findings.
The Control One and dongle has been ordered and should arrive today.
Posted Sun 26 Nov 23 @ 11:22 am
Centre Stage Discos
I have got to ask a question. I wonder how many mobile discos use full DMX control on their lighting? I would have guessed very few, i.e. well under 10%. It won't be something everyone can easily dive into. Or am I deluded and most modern setups are using these controllers these days? Maybe I am the dinosaur here. Curious.
Posted Sun 26 Nov 23 @ 1:40 pm
groovindj
I usually don't bother, as TBH the audience doesn't give a monkeys whether your lights have been programmed or they're running a built in show.
As long as there's a bit of colour and movement, job done.
Many years ago I used to take out loads of lights and fill up my goalpost overhead bar. I don't do that now either. Too much work setting up, and over kill for small/medium events. Especially now with lights being brighter, two lights with some movement and maybe two floods and that's it.
Again, the audience don't care what lights you've got, how much they cost etc. as long as it looks like a disco. So if you've got say two lights with movement and two floods to add some colour to the venue, that's it. Start with the floods, then turn on the movement when they hit the dancefloor.
As long as there's a bit of colour and movement, job done.
Many years ago I used to take out loads of lights and fill up my goalpost overhead bar. I don't do that now either. Too much work setting up, and over kill for small/medium events. Especially now with lights being brighter, two lights with some movement and maybe two floods and that's it.
Again, the audience don't care what lights you've got, how much they cost etc. as long as it looks like a disco. So if you've got say two lights with movement and two floods to add some colour to the venue, that's it. Start with the floods, then turn on the movement when they hit the dancefloor.
Posted Sun 26 Nov 23 @ 2:27 pm
