info.dnjee
Rather , it could be that ATOMIX is not putting themselves in the forefront enough to hardware manufacturers making it known that we ( ATX ) wants to be supported . Otherwise if controller after co teller comes out without early adoption to VDJ then people will continue to pass up VDJ. It’s actually important for ATX to stay relevant everyday or the industry will
Pass them up. Thats the truth of the matter.
Imagine that some will consider hardware in place of software if other software can minimally get the job done. So the concern for ATX is keeping people in the platform.
Pass them up. Thats the truth of the matter.
Imagine that some will consider hardware in place of software if other software can minimally get the job done. So the concern for ATX is keeping people in the platform.
Posted Tue 14 Mar 23 @ 11:29 pm
djfyahfyngaz
I bought the rane four and I love it and don't plan to return it.... Ive been using vdj for years now and have no intention of stopping. With the things this controller offers I know when vdj finally supports this its going to be a bigger beast than it already is.
VDJ please take y'all time with mapping this but please hurry.
VDJ please take y'all time with mapping this but please hurry.
Posted Wed 15 Mar 23 @ 1:06 am
info.dnjee
See what i was saying.
Nuff said.
Nuff said.
Posted Wed 15 Mar 23 @ 1:42 am
SoundSmith dj
If more testers are needed once mapping goes Beta I'd be glad to participate.
Cheers
Cheers
Posted Wed 15 Mar 23 @ 3:50 am
DJ VinylTouch
So I see lots of responses here wrt hardware support but I just wanted to give mybview on PhantomDeejay's response.
You guys (Atomix devs) do an excellent job at mappings given the environment you have to work with.
Two points though (all with respect/no insult intended):
1) So I get it, we as the consumers can make the difference. However that is easier said than done.
I get the feeling (please correct me if I'm wrong) that hardware vendors really just care about the forefront software, and kinda look down on VDJ users. They already don't resoond very well, in their own forums, to most their userbases (I only looked at some threads on Serato, but I have first hand experience of being belittled/mostly ignored on Rekordbox/Pioneer forums), so it does take some confidence/hope for us as consumers to still try at this.
2) It helps to know, at least as a consumer, that VirtualDJ devs are considering controllers for mapping and the requirements (yes I do know you had a clarification on this for a post I had but I thibk the point deserves repetition). One of the biggest things us as users of the software want to know is that we have a stable future, hardware-wise, given all of the effort we are putting into organization/performing with the software. Things like "The rane twelve mk2 is fully supported, but Rane has not released the required firmware update" but not having an idea of the firmware version and if it is/when it will be released is a bit disappointing.
I would just restate, I'm not one for jumping at every new controller that hits the market...it's just knowing options will always be there.
You guys (Atomix devs) do an excellent job at mappings given the environment you have to work with.
Two points though (all with respect/no insult intended):
1) So I get it, we as the consumers can make the difference. However that is easier said than done.
I get the feeling (please correct me if I'm wrong) that hardware vendors really just care about the forefront software, and kinda look down on VDJ users. They already don't resoond very well, in their own forums, to most their userbases (I only looked at some threads on Serato, but I have first hand experience of being belittled/mostly ignored on Rekordbox/Pioneer forums), so it does take some confidence/hope for us as consumers to still try at this.
2) It helps to know, at least as a consumer, that VirtualDJ devs are considering controllers for mapping and the requirements (yes I do know you had a clarification on this for a post I had but I thibk the point deserves repetition). One of the biggest things us as users of the software want to know is that we have a stable future, hardware-wise, given all of the effort we are putting into organization/performing with the software. Things like "The rane twelve mk2 is fully supported, but Rane has not released the required firmware update" but not having an idea of the firmware version and if it is/when it will be released is a bit disappointing.
I would just restate, I'm not one for jumping at every new controller that hits the market...it's just knowing options will always be there.
Posted Wed 15 Mar 23 @ 4:25 am
kradcliffe
The options have always been there for me since 2008.
I have bought controllers previously (MC6000 and DDJ-SX2) that weren't mapped on release however the Dev team were happy for owners to contribute and test so the actual release came quickly.
Although I'm currently using two (out of date according to Denon fanboys) MCX8000 units I don't have the slightest worry about the future of VDJ or their ability to support upcoming hardware.
I have bought controllers previously (MC6000 and DDJ-SX2) that weren't mapped on release however the Dev team were happy for owners to contribute and test so the actual release came quickly.
Although I'm currently using two (out of date according to Denon fanboys) MCX8000 units I don't have the slightest worry about the future of VDJ or their ability to support upcoming hardware.
Posted Wed 15 Mar 23 @ 9:20 am
djdad
See this post https://www.virtualdj.com/forums/251575/VirtualDJ_Technical_Support/RANE_4_.html
User sees the device, thinks it's the right one for him and just buys it without asking if VDJ is offering support. Then one day he receives his hardware , plugs it in VDJ and wonders why not working.
Is it user's fault ? Will leave you to answer.
Just to be clear. VirtualDJ WILL support Rane Four as plug n play.
Now, i know that you want to ask, When ?
Hard to answer. We will get our device very soon and start integration. Usually doesnt take long, but due to the complexity and new features, we really cannot estimate. Rest assure that we will do our best as always.
User sees the device, thinks it's the right one for him and just buys it without asking if VDJ is offering support. Then one day he receives his hardware , plugs it in VDJ and wonders why not working.
Is it user's fault ? Will leave you to answer.
Just to be clear. VirtualDJ WILL support Rane Four as plug n play.
Now, i know that you want to ask, When ?
Hard to answer. We will get our device very soon and start integration. Usually doesnt take long, but due to the complexity and new features, we really cannot estimate. Rest assure that we will do our best as always.
Posted Wed 15 Mar 23 @ 5:56 pm
djdad
Continuing the discussion about VirtualDJ staying behind in regards to main software included in hardware, i 'd like to say a few things here.
When a new Hardware comes in stores, the Marketing guys usually notice a high peak at the beginning, then some other peaks when they run some Marketing push (drop price, offer, media, reviews etc), then constantly decreasing till deprecation.
Now, normally they should notice a peak in the Sales line when VirtualDJ official support comes and take that into account for their next projects. but this rarely happens and not noticed because VDJ users dont behave as "expected". They know for sure that we will soon offer support, they buy the hardware before that, play a few days/weeks with the other software and then come back to VDJ. Because of this, the Marketing guys dont see the peak, and think that VDJ users community is weak. You all know of course that's not true.
Ideally, VDJ users should not buy non-officially VDJ supported hardware and instead, post in media and ask for VDJ support. Even if manufactures (or bloggers) dont reply and u think they don't bother, trust me they do. Look at the Denon Prime GO. Denon decided that there will be no "Computer mode" but they took it back and added VDJ support (after a long time), because many asked in Denon forums about it.
Consumers have power ;)
When a new Hardware comes in stores, the Marketing guys usually notice a high peak at the beginning, then some other peaks when they run some Marketing push (drop price, offer, media, reviews etc), then constantly decreasing till deprecation.
Now, normally they should notice a peak in the Sales line when VirtualDJ official support comes and take that into account for their next projects. but this rarely happens and not noticed because VDJ users dont behave as "expected". They know for sure that we will soon offer support, they buy the hardware before that, play a few days/weeks with the other software and then come back to VDJ. Because of this, the Marketing guys dont see the peak, and think that VDJ users community is weak. You all know of course that's not true.
Ideally, VDJ users should not buy non-officially VDJ supported hardware and instead, post in media and ask for VDJ support. Even if manufactures (or bloggers) dont reply and u think they don't bother, trust me they do. Look at the Denon Prime GO. Denon decided that there will be no "Computer mode" but they took it back and added VDJ support (after a long time), because many asked in Denon forums about it.
Consumers have power ;)
Posted Wed 15 Mar 23 @ 6:12 pm
info.dnjee
Thx for that reply .
I’m thinking that we should just hold on to our britches till NAMM. Wait till all the companies showcases their heat for this season and then take from there.
I’m thinking that we should just hold on to our britches till NAMM. Wait till all the companies showcases their heat for this season and then take from there.
Posted Wed 15 Mar 23 @ 10:39 pm
klausmogensen
djdad wrote :
...Usually doesnt take long, but due to the complexity and new features, we really cannot estimate. Rest assure that we will do our best as always.
Looking forward to (hopefully) a real general Stems Split feature (locked and unlocked mode), instead of the homemade stuff I've tried to script :)
Posted Thu 16 Mar 23 @ 10:42 am
info.dnjee
I keep saying I’m gonna stop talking about the Rane 4 but I’m seriously Impressed. It may be difficult to beat. Those Pad screens are quite thoughtful. I am really a fan a VDJ but I’m considering to switch to SRT just to use the Rane 4 . It may be hard to talk me out of it. .
Posted Thu 16 Mar 23 @ 5:29 pm
klausmogensen
user26221342 wrote :
I keep saying I’m gonna stop talking about the Rane 4 but I’m seriously Impressed. It may be difficult to beat. Those Pad screens are quite thoughtful. I am really a fan a VDJ but I’m considering to switch to SRT just to use the Rane 4 . It may be hard to talk me out of it. .
Yes it looks cool
But I don't think anybody will try to talk you out of anything, since this is the message from Atomix regarding VDJ support
(in case yo didn't see it):
djdad wrote :
Just to be clear. VirtualDJ WILL support Rane Four as plug n play.
... so there will not really be any reason to switch to another software to use the Rane Four
Posted Thu 16 Mar 23 @ 5:50 pm
kradcliffe
user26221342 wrote :
I am really a fan a VDJ but I’m considering to switch to SRT just to use the Rane 4 . It may be hard to talk me out of it. .
Threatening the dev team won't make things happen any quicker dude.
Posted Thu 16 Mar 23 @ 6:15 pm
wollerosekauf
Appropriate software is already included with the buyer.
So changing is relative...
Pro Version and Pitch'nTime are on board.
So - buy and test :-)
So changing is relative...
Pro Version and Pitch'nTime are on board.
So - buy and test :-)
Posted Thu 16 Mar 23 @ 9:19 pm
PhantomDeejay
DJ VinylTouch wrote :
2) It helps to know, at least as a consumer, that VirtualDJ devs are considering controllers for mapping and the requirements (yes I do know you had a clarification on this for a post I had but I thibk the point deserves repetition). One of the biggest things us as users of the software want to know is that we have a stable future, hardware-wise, given all of the effort we are putting into organization/performing with the software. Things like "The rane twelve mk2 is fully supported, but Rane has not released the required firmware update" but not having an idea of the firmware version and if it is/when it will be released is a bit disappointing.
I will be as clear as I can:
We add support for new controllers constantly. And we will keep doing that. Just take a look on supported hardware page, and count how many "new" controllers were released and we added support for, just the last year.
The requirements are pretty simple:
It has to be a MIDI or HID device, and it has to be available for purchase.
As for Twelve MKII: It's easy to point at one unit that has one specific "glitch" and make it your flag for "poor" integration. However it doesn't paint the whole picture, nor the correct one. And unfortunately we can't share any more information publicly about it. Still the unit is 100% useable. Would it be better if it showed BPM on screen ? Absolutely!
Does the lack of BPM display on it's screen make the unit unusable or more hard to work with ? I don't think so, but you're free to decide by yourself.
PS: We are always transparent to our users, up to the point we can without getting in trouble. A quick search on these forums regarding various similar topics, should prove that very easily.
Posted Fri 17 Mar 23 @ 12:43 am
DJ VinylTouch
PhantomDeejay wrote :
I will be as clear as I can:
We add support for new controllers constantly. And we will keep doing that. Just take a look on supported hardware page, and count how many "new" controllers were released and we added support for, just the last year.
The requirements are pretty simple:
It has to be a MIDI or HID device, and it has to be available for purchase.
As for Twelve MKII: It's easy to point at one unit that has one specific "glitch" and make it your flag for "poor" integration. However it doesn't paint the whole picture, nor the correct one. And unfortunately we can't share any more information publicly about it. Still the unit is 100% useable. Would it be better if it showed BPM on screen ? Absolutely!
Does the lack of BPM display on it's screen make the unit unusable or more hard to work with ? I don't think so, but you're free to decide by yourself.
PS: We are always transparent to our users, up to the point we can without getting in trouble. A quick search on these forums regarding various similar topics, should prove that very easily.
DJ VinylTouch wrote :
2) It helps to know, at least as a consumer, that VirtualDJ devs are considering controllers for mapping and the requirements (yes I do know you had a clarification on this for a post I had but I thibk the point deserves repetition). One of the biggest things us as users of the software want to know is that we have a stable future, hardware-wise, given all of the effort we are putting into organization/performing with the software. Things like "The rane twelve mk2 is fully supported, but Rane has not released the required firmware update" but not having an idea of the firmware version and if it is/when it will be released is a bit disappointing.
I will be as clear as I can:
We add support for new controllers constantly. And we will keep doing that. Just take a look on supported hardware page, and count how many "new" controllers were released and we added support for, just the last year.
The requirements are pretty simple:
It has to be a MIDI or HID device, and it has to be available for purchase.
As for Twelve MKII: It's easy to point at one unit that has one specific "glitch" and make it your flag for "poor" integration. However it doesn't paint the whole picture, nor the correct one. And unfortunately we can't share any more information publicly about it. Still the unit is 100% useable. Would it be better if it showed BPM on screen ? Absolutely!
Does the lack of BPM display on it's screen make the unit unusable or more hard to work with ? I don't think so, but you're free to decide by yourself.
PS: We are always transparent to our users, up to the point we can without getting in trouble. A quick search on these forums regarding various similar topics, should prove that very easily.
I understand the points tbh and I did say you guys do an excellent job.
>Does the lack of BPM display on it's screen make the unit unusable or more hard to work with ? I don't think so, but you're free to decide by yourself.
Yes the BPM thing doesn't make the hardware unusable at all,bbut it does make potential users second guess the level of support of the hardware.
What i was referring to as disappointing is that you had said there was a firmware fix for the.l problem that Rane has held up.....I thought firmware fixes normally are not as frequent as driver fixes and are pushed out as soon as considered stable because of what it is fixing. I know you (Atomix guys) have no control over that but I can't help but wonder why they would hold up a firmware release like that.
In summary though, I appreciate what you guys are doing and hope that you will continue as best you can.
Posted Fri 17 Mar 23 @ 6:53 pm
PhantomDeejay
DJ VinylTouch wrote :
Yes the BPM thing doesn't make the hardware unusable at all,bbut it does make potential users second guess the level of support of the hardware.
One more thing I can say (and hope that I won't regret it) is that the screen originally was not meant to show BPM. It was meant only to be used to select (and show) the working mode of the unit.
Also I have made this point in the past, but I will repeat it here:
A hardware controller is just a bunch of buttons, sliders. knobs, leds e.t.c. bundled together on a specific layout.
We understand that users expect a button on a controller to do whatever the controller has printed on it's silkscreen. That's why we try to map controllers as close as possible to their silkscreen.
However a lot of times users expect a button to behave the same way it does with the other software that's included in the controller package. And that's where controversy begins.
It's NOT the controller that enables specific functionality. It's the software. The controller just offers buttons/sliders/e.t.c. labeled for a specific function. As far the software is concerned, any given button is more or less the same. Not just for VirtualDJ. For ANY DJ software, it doesn't matter if the button is labeled "Silent Cue" or "Slip" or "Quantize". It just uses that button to tie it up with a specific software function.
Our goal is NOT to be a copy of other software. This means that for some function(s) differences may apply. Most users tend to forget that. They complain that the "X" button doesn't work the same as the "Y" software title. That doesn't mean "poor" hardware integration. It means different hardware integration. That's something I can't overemphasize enough.
Most of the times users confuse hardware functionality with software functionality.
As a development team we have done several things with controllers that would be impossible to do if we were "stuck" to just copy the functionality of the software in the box of the controller.
We were the first software to allow you to use PADS with different functionality than the one printed in the controller via remapping, and later we were the first software to allow you to freely assign ANY pad page to ANY pad page button on the fly with "pad pages".
We were also the first software to offer STEMS control via controllers even if no controller existed with dedicated "stems" buttons or knobs at the time.
According to us and our beliefs this implementation that was not "as close as the original" added more value to your controller. Meaning that you could do more with the same controller than what you would be able to do if we just "stuck" to how the controller behaved with other software.
I mean, look at Serato:
It had to work with Rane to release a new controller with dedicated "STEMS" controls to allow you to control it's stems. However you can control stems with almost any controller in VirtualDJ for 2 years now, and our support is also backwards compatible. Meaning that a controller released 10 years ago can still be used to control stems. You don't have to buy a new controller just to get this functionality!
Posted Sat 18 Mar 23 @ 10:33 am
DJ VinylTouch
I understand this very well (I didn't know the screen on the rane twelve mkii was repurposed...I thought that was the original functionality, hopefully that wasn't a secret lol).
Once again, I just want to say thanks for all the hard work...I do appreciate it, and I'm sure all of the other VirtualDJ users do as well.
Once again, I just want to say thanks for all the hard work...I do appreciate it, and I'm sure all of the other VirtualDJ users do as well.
Posted Sat 18 Mar 23 @ 12:55 pm
kradcliffe
Well I have the MCX8000 which has long since been abandoned by "new" Denon as a legacy product however I can use the pads to control stems as if I had bought the controller yesterday.
Thing is I wouldn't touch their newer gear with a bargepole as the quality is rubbish nowadays.
Can't ask for better than that!
Thing is I wouldn't touch their newer gear with a bargepole as the quality is rubbish nowadays.
Can't ask for better than that!
Posted Sat 18 Mar 23 @ 3:18 pm
Mixology82
if you need to use the Rane Four right away, you can easily map the basic stuff yourself, I have one on order and will do so till the official mapping is available, the only thing I am not knowledgable in mapping are the LEDs that part of mapping has always confused me.
Posted Sun 19 Mar 23 @ 10:00 pm
